Damned Typical

[dave.bt]

May Livni rot in hell for keeping Kadima out of the coalition. The Americans come over to try to work on the talks and so what better time for Shas to announce action on a further build

Biden: East Jerusalem plan undermines peace talks

Earlier Tuesday, the Interior Ministry approved the building of 1,600 new housing units in Ramat Shlomo, with a ministry official saying the plan will expand the ultra-Orthodox East Jerusalem neighborhood to the east and to the south

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1155171.html

I mean go ahead deny it

Yishai: East Jerusalem construction decision not linked to Biden's visit

http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3860385,00.html

But after 25 years of living Israeli politics you can kind of see these things coming. over 70 central secular seats and we get held to ransom by these !!**?&& Damn it pisses me off.

[polardude1]

shas =religious hacks

[dave.bt]

shas =religious hacks

It is so frustrating though, and it makes us look exactly what we are not. Sometimes you can understand why people make the comments they do, because without a deep understanding of how this occurs and why it happens if I was looking from the outside it would be easy just to read the headlines.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/8561160.stm

Israel is coming under growing international pressure following its approval of new housing for Israelis in occupied East Jerusalem.

The housing row has overshadowed a visit by US Vice-President Joe Biden which is meant to promote a new round of US-led negotiations.

Mr Biden renewed his criticism the move, saying it undermined trust in the peace process.

Netanyahu regrets 'timing' of E. J'lem housing announcement

announcement of a plan to build 1,600 new housing units in East Jerusalem - which was issued on the same day U.S. Vice President Joe Biden arrived in the region to help jumpstart peace talks with the Palestinians - was "a serious mishap ... that should not have happened

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1155625.html

[polardude1]

Eli Yishai lacks timing and tact

[dave.bt]

Eli Yishai lacks timing and tact

and once again we don't do ourselves any favours. We end up needlessly damaging our position. Anyone who is aware of this housing project, including the Americans, would be aware this is no big deal. So why on earth would Yishai need to place this right on the table on the very day Biden arrives -forcing him into making harsh statements, the PA into taking 3 steps back and Netanyahu into an apologetic position. So so so dumb.

[CatScanMan]

Israel slaps the US in the face ever other week and still the US hasn't even threatened to withdraw aid.

America doesn't care what Israel does to the Palestinians, the West Bank, or the peace process. If it did then Israel would be at the negotiating table next month with a reasonable position.

I'm not sure all this isn't theatre, an attempt to convince the Muslim world that America's support of Israel isn't unconditional, when in reality it is.

[polardude1]

CSN
I would prefer if Israel did not recieve aid from the US. But this latest move seems pretty straight from the Shas leader Eli Yishai, who is a scum bag.

[Meir Kahane]

....... the Shas leader Eli Yishai, who is a scum bag.

amazing !!
the way you and your bud DaveBT aka Poppy talk on this thread alone would tend for most to call you two the anti semits and yet you call Terry Teo one . ???????
you Diaspora Right wing are a wierd bunch is all we have to say

[dave.bt]

....... the Shas leader Eli Yishai, who is a scum bag.

amazing !!
the way you and your bud DaveBT aka Poppy talk on this thread alone would tend for most to call you two the anti semits and yet you call Terry Teo one . ???????
you Diaspora Right wing are a wierd bunch is all we have to say

Calling Eli Yishai a scumbag or saying there is a problem with our political system when it allows for incidents like this to occur is hardly anti-semitic sabra. If you have anything to say, say it, if not please leave the threads alone. As for your comment I am right wing, grow up.

[polardude1]

A few thing a non Israeli such as MK would not understand

1. Shas, since its inception, has been corrupt party. Its first leader, Deri went to jail and Yishai is not that much different ISjas is like a religious mafia

2. Shas alwasy demands the very powerful Interior Ministry when joing a coalition and they run it like a little kingdom

3. Ministries operate independently with their own budget and the don't alwasy coodinate their activies with the PM. In the islraei govt the right hand does not always know what the left hand is doing.

MK ,
you area a weak troll

[Meir Kahane]

We are Israelies Dude , Jewish Israelies , would you like us to take our trousers down to prove it to you ?

not really. As a self proclaimed "post Zionist leftist, you would have agreed with my impression of the Shas party and Eli Yishai. I guess you missed the boat on that one.

We never said that we did agree with Shas dude
but
we would never use the kind of words that you use American
nor
would we use the kind of violence that we have come to expect from you and yours American
and from your bud Poppy

[polardude1]

faux israeli

we would never use the kind of words that you use American
nor

The words used Israelis would be far more colorful and discriptive

I'm sure you would have been a bit upset when the former Shas a minister, Yitzhak Peretz, blamed the the Habonim jct bus crash where several school kids died on the fact that not every home in Petzh Tikva had a mazzuzah.

Such things yo would not know about

[dave.bt]

Secretary of state tells Netanyahu announcement of plan to build more Jewish homes in east Jerusalem 'contradicts spirit of Biden's Mideast trip, undermines confidence in peace process'. Quartet also condemns Israel's decision

http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3861832,00.html

Foot - shoot- own hand. Damn idiots

[polardude1]

Dave,

As much as i do not like Bibi, I don't think he was breifed on thsi announcement about the housing. This was all Yishai's doing and who knows if it was meant to embarras Biden or Bibi. Yishai and Shas seem to operate on their own term, irregardless of the PM and his guest. It's not Bibi's style to embarress his American guests.

[Meir Kahane]

Dave,

As much as i do not like Bibi, I don't think he was breifed on thsi announcement about the housing. This was all Yishai's doing and who knows if it was meant to embarras Biden or Bibi. Yishai and Shas seem to operate on their own term, irregardless of the PM and his guest. It's not Bibi's style to embarress his American guests.

Clinton dismissed Netanyahu's explanation that the decision to approve the housing plan was made without his knowledge, reminding him that as prime minister he is responsible for his government's actions.

[dave.bt]

Dave,

As much as i do not like Bibi, I don't think he was breifed on thsi announcement about the housing. This was all Yishai's doing and who knows if it was meant to embarras Biden or Bibi. Yishai and Shas seem to operate on their own term, irregardless of the PM and his guest. It's not Bibi's style to embarress his American guests.

Of course he didn't know. I only wish the Israeli political machine was so well oiled!! For all sabras wailings, Clintons reproach doesn't contradict him merely states as captain he is responsible for the ship. As mentioned in my OP this was a clearly political move by Shas and simply highlights the need for the millionth time to destroy this failed political system of ours.

[Meir Kahane]

Our government is a joke

Diplomatic disaster during Biden visit just another Bibi-era mishap

Sima Kadmon Published: 03.13.10, 13:06 / Israel Opinion

The answer to the following question is just like the answer to what’s better, the plague or cholera? Do we prefer a prime minister who endorses an announcement on east Jerusalem construction at the most miserable timing possible, or a prime minister who has no idea of what goes on around him and whose clumsy conduct and inability to control his surroundings allow elements within his own government to trip him up.

Netanyahu didn’t know. We have a first-hand witness to this: Knesset Member Nachman Shai, who was at the PM’s Office Tuesday evening when Netanyahu got the news. Shai arrived in order to present his doctoral dissertation on the issue of public relations to Bibi. Netanyahu was supposed to later leave the office and return to his home in order to host Joe Biden and his wife for an intimate dinner.

The conversation flawed easily. After all, it was about an issue that both Shai and Netanyahu are deeply familiar with. Shai detailed his thesis and the importance of Israel’s public relations efforts being concentrated under one source of authority – a system that can both collect the information and pass it on.

And then, ironically, Spokesman Nir Hefetz entered the room and informed the prime minister about the mess that was just materializing. Netanyahu was stunned, Shai says. It certainly appeared as though the news came out of the blue. The PM quickly made phone calls to his aides and to the interior minister; it appeared that he was gradually grasping the scope of the mishap.

What’s happening to us? What kind of a joke do we have for a government? How do we manage to turn every friendly American visit into a farce? How do we manage to embarrass a friend like Joe Biden, who arrived here in order to express the US Administration’s support for Israel and reassert the confidence that our mutual ties constitute a deep partnership of values and interests?

Foolishness, indifference, and insensitivity

Netanyahu could have complained of not knowing, misfortune, bureaucracy, a miserable coincidence, or anything else. After all, how could he predict that the district committee in Jerusalem would approve the construction of 1,600 residential units precisely on the same day when the US vice president is here? Yet had the PM really wanted to know what’s happening right under his nose, instead of sticking his head in the sand, he could have done it.

For example, Netanyahu could have ensured that the new planning and construction legislation would call for a representative on his behalf at the district committee. Alternately, he could have demanded that he be informed of anything on the committee’s agenda. This is not an original idea: It was happening during the Olmert government’s term in office.

Yet it appears that again we are dealing with disorderly conduct by the Prime Minister’s Office that allows such grave matter to materialize. Time and again, we see incidents happening here that attest to foolishness, indifference, and insensitivity. Otherwise, how could it be that every time an American envoy arrives here, ranging from George Mitchell to Hillary Clinton to Joe Biden, we embarrass them with acts that look like sticking a finger in one’s eye?

Source: http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340 ... 23,00.html

[dave.bt]

disagree MK, you've give us an Opinion piece that the author is simply using to further push their own political stance. Do you completely agree with Sima Kadmon's political stance? I do not blame the events of the last few days on anything other than the system that fails to allow us a ship with one direction, although obviously the political makee-up of this current government doesn't help. I would blame that however more on those that should have been big enough and responsible enough to take their place in the ship (Kadima) rather than those that are the tiny power mad troublemakers who'd always be willing to hold position'. What do you think?

[Meir Kahane]

What do you think?

look up Poppy , we already said what we think :

you Diaspora Right wing are a wierd bunch is all we have to say

[polardude1]

look up Poppy , we already said what we think

googling an article is not saying what you think. How can ou be a good Israeli troll and carry on this way?

Dave, Shas does its own thing becasue it can. Bibi canot afford to lose him as a colastion partner

[dave.bt]

Dave, Shas does its own thing becasue it can. Bibi canot afford to lose him as a colastion partner

Agreed, but surely it highlights the foolishness of the system. If the Prime Minister is not in control of the elements, what kind of system are we left with.

[polardude1]

If the Prime Minister is not in control of the elements, what kind of system are we left with.

thatis a eakness of a coalition gove wher the PM's part controls less than half the seats in his govt

[polardude1]

Mk can put his little google mind to rest.
http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1156285.html

[Meir Kahane]

Mk can put his little google mind to rest.
http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1156285.html

So this link helps your argument that Bibi is with Obama and not against him ????
Helps you back up that this recent crisis with America is all Shas's fault and nothing to do with Likud and its leader , is that why you posted it American ?

Did you read it dumbass ???????

Likud faction whip Ze'ev Elkin earlier Sunday urged Netanyahu not to deviate from his policy on East Jerusalem construction, saying Israel must keep the capital undivided and under its sovereignty.

You also want "the capital undivided and under its sovereignty" you have said so many times .
It's Gov policy Dude , Bibi is the head of this Gov and with or without Shas he will still continue to build in East Jerusalem and the OT , unless the Obama administration that you voted for puts the screws on .

[Meir Kahane]

screws now being applied : .......

Israel envoy: U.S. ties at their worst in 35 years

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1156467.html

1. Investigate the process that led to the announcement of the Ramat Shlomo construction plans in the middle of Biden's visit. The Americans seek an official response from Israel on whether this was a bureaucratic mistake or a deliberate act carried out for political reasons. Already on Saturday night, Netanyahu announced the convening of a committee to look into the issue.

2. Reverse the decision by the Jerusalem District Planning and Building Committee to approve construction of 1,600 new housing units in Ramat Shlomo.

3. Make a substantial gesture toward the Palestinians enabling the renewal of peace talks. The Americans suggested that hundreds of Palestinian prisoners be released, that the Israel Defense Forces withdraw from additional areas of the West Bank and transfer them to Palestinian control, that the siege of the Gaza Strip be eased and further roadblocks in the West Bank be removed.

4. Issue an official declaration that the talks with the Palestinians, even indirect talks, will deal with all the conflict's core issues - borders, refugees, Jerusalem, security arrangements, water and settlements.

Two advisers of the prime minister, Yitzhak Molcho and Ron Dermer, held marathon talks Sunday with senior White House officials in Washington and U.S. Mideast envoy George Mitchell and his staff to try to calm the situation. Mitchell will return to Israel Tuesday and expects to hear if Netanyahu intends to take the proposed steps.

At the beginning of Sunday's cabinet meeting, Netanyahu tried to convey a message that there was no crisis in relations with the United States. But he sent precisely the opposite message to Oren in Washington.

In Oren's Saturday conference call with the Israeli consuls general, he said that the current crisis was the most serious with the Americans since a confrontation between Henry Kissinger and Yitzhak Rabin in 1975 over an American demand for a partial withdrawal from the Sinai Peninsula.

Alls well that ends well , eh polardude1, thanks for voting for Obama Dude , we appreciate it .

[polardude1]

So this link helps your argument that Bibi is with Obama and not against him

where did i say that,
BTW you're posting more spam,

[Meir Kahane]

Alls well that ends well , eh polardude1, thanks for voting for Obama Dude , we appreciate it .
we really really do

[unknown]

dave.bt and polardude1, am I to believe that your objection is the timing of the statement of the building of settlements and not the actual settlement building which is illegal?

What is it?

Do you think settlements increase the chances of peace? I would appreciate an honest answer. I\m sure the insults will follow later.

[polardude1]

dave.bt and polardude1, am I to believe that your objection is the timing of the statement of the building of settlements

1. i'd like ot see where the house are to be built in Jerusalem

2. jerusalem is allowed to grow a a city

3. Is is part of the city and not a seperate settlement

4. When was Jerusalem ever controlled by Palestinians

[unknown]

dave.bt and polardude1, am I to believe that your objection is the timing of the statement of the building of settlements

1. i'd like ot see where the house are to be built in Jerusalem

2. jerusalem is allowed to grow a a city

3. Is is part of the city and not a seperate settlement

4. When was Jerusalem ever controlled by Palestinians

With all due respect, you have not attempted to address my question. Is your objection the timing of the statement or the fact that settlements are to be build in occupied east jerusalem?

I probably know you will not attempt to address it, but for good measure I will address your questions.

1) East Jerusalem.

2) Yes. Westwards

3) No-one is arguing that.

4) Irrelevant. It is not Israeli territory to build on.

Are you going to ignore my question? A response would be appreciated.

[Logg]

dave.bt and polardude1, am I to believe that your objection is the timing of the statement of the building of settlements and not the actual settlement building which is illegal?

What is it?

Do you think settlements increase the chances of peace? I would appreciate an honest answer. I\m sure the insults will follow later.

Fair question. The whole thing is such a silly game. Judging by your choice in terminology I'd say your mind is already made up, not that I give a rat's ass. Take a look at a map, this neighborhood is just over the green line.

Anyway, the quid pro quo as I understand it from a few months ago when Obama demanded a 20 month(?) moratorium on settlement housing construction was that Israel would be allowed to keep building in East Jerusalem. But what do I know.

Just goes to show how silly and empty the whole thing is, including your facile understanding of 'settlements' and 'increasing the chance of peace'. It's a game. Israel blew it with that announcement.

[unknown]

dave.bt and polardude1, am I to believe that your objection is the timing of the statement of the building of settlements and not the actual settlement building which is illegal?

What is it?

Do you think settlements increase the chances of peace? I would appreciate an honest answer. I\m sure the insults will follow later.

Fair question. The whole thing is such a silly game. Judging by your choice in terminology I'd say your mind is already made up, not that I give a rat's ass. Take a look at a map, this neighborhood is just over the green line.

Anyway, the quid pro quo as I understand it from a few months ago when Obama demanded a 20 month(?) moratorium on settlement housing construction was that Israel would be allowed to keep building in East Jerusalem. But what do I know.

Just goes to show how silly and empty the whole thing is, including your facile understanding of 'settlements' and 'increasing the chance of peace'. It's a game. Israel blew it with that announcement.

So you think its the anouncement and not the actual building on occupied land? Fair enough It doesn't matter if the land is an inch inside east jerusalem. Would Israel allow the palestinians to build 1600 homes for themselves anywhere inside Israel?.

[polardude1]

1) East Jerusalem.

2) Yes. Westwards

3) No-one is arguing that.

4) Irrelevant. It is not Israeli territory to build on.

westward is a bit difficult

It is not Palestinian land either. That said, I stil want to see where the construction would take place

looks like it is an extension of the Gilo neighborhood

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/ir-amim/n ... 71543.html
Reactions in Israel reflect a widely shared assumption, which developed over the four decades since Israel annexed East Jerusalem and declared it part of "United Jerusalem." The large Jewish neighborhoods Israel built on expropriated lands in the annexed areas are home to about 200,000 Israeli Jews, who represent every social and political group in the country. They are accepted as a natural and permanent part of metropolitan Jerusalem and of Israel. Very few refer to them as "settlements," and even steadfast supporters of a future Palestinian state do not expect these neighborhoods to be included in its new borders. It is to this consensus that Netanyahu appeals in his rejection of the international protests over construction in Gilo.

[unknown]

Thank you for the colourful map. Butare you cheesed off by the statementwhich coincided with Biden's visit or the construction?

Under international law, Israel has no right to build on it, despite what you claim. That my friend is a fact. The land is recognised as Palestinian land by everyone bar Israel. But ownership (disputed or not) is an aside and do not want to get diverted on a sideshow issue.

[unknown]

1) East Jerusalem.

2) Yes. Westwards

3) No-one is arguing that.

4) Irrelevant. It is not Israeli territory to build on.

westward is a bit difficult

It is not Palestinian land either. That said, I stil want to see where the construction would take place

looks like it is an extension of the Gilo neighborhood

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/ir-amim/n ... 71543.html
Reactions in Israel reflect a widely shared assumption, which developed over the four decades since Israel annexed East Jerusalem and declared it part of "United Jerusalem." The large Jewish neighborhoods Israel built on expropriated lands in the annexed areas are home to about 200,000 Israeli Jews, who represent every social and political group in the country. They are accepted as a natural and permanent part of metropolitan Jerusalem and of Israel. Very few refer to them as "settlements," and even steadfast supporters of a future Palestinian state do not expect these neighborhoods to be included in its new borders. It is to this consensus that Netanyahu appeals in his rejection of the international protests over construction in Gilo.

Thanks for ignorng the question asked. Instead you go on about another issue. You call others spammers? Do you call such dishonesty actual debate?

[polardude1]

I'm actually going to the heart of the issue. There is a difference between settlements and expansion of a neighborhood in Jerusalem. The time and scare of announcent were ill timed, even though there is terrotory that the PA has written off as being part of a future state

[unknown]

I'm actually going to the heart of the issue. There is a difference between settlements and expansion of a neighborhood in Jerusalem. The time and scare of announcent were ill timed, even though there is terrotory that the PA has written off as being part of a future state

So I take it your objection is not the so-called expansion but the timing of the announcement.

Moreover, if the enlargement of a neighbourhood encroached into another person's land or land not deemed legally to be yours, then there is a problem. Would Israel permit palestinians to build or expand their neighbourhoods into israel proper? Kindly answer.

[polardude1]

So I take it your objection is not the so-called expansion but the timing of the announcement.

and the scale

Moreover, if the enlargement of a neighbourhood encroached into another person's land or land not deemed legally to be yours,

how do you know tahtis indeed a fact

. Would Israel permit palestinians to build or expand their neighbourhoods into israel proper? Kindly answer.

They already do, its called natural growth by Palestinian communites within Israel.

[unknown]

So I take it your objection is not the so-called expansion but the timing of the announcement.

and the scale

Moreover, if the enlargement of a neighbourhood encroached into another person's land or land not deemed legally to be yours,

how do you know tahtis indeed a fact

. Would Israel permit palestinians to build or expand their neighbourhoods into israel proper? Kindly answer.

They already do, its called natural growth by Palestinian communites within Israel.

The scale of what?

How do I know what is indeed a fact? Be clear.

Do the israelis allow people from the west bank and gaza to build in israel?

[Meir Kahane]

dave.bt and polardude1, am I to believe that your objection is the timing of the statement of the building of settlements

1. i'd like ot see where the house are to be built in Jerusalem

happy to help , go here to : http://www.peacenow.org.il/site/en/peac ... docid=4597

click on enlarge map and hey presto you got it

plus

Conclusion: the prime minister did not know…

During the visit of VP Biden, Prime Minister Netanyahu claimed he did not know about the intention of the regional committee to discuss the plan to build 1,600 housing units in Ramat Shlomo in East Jerusalem. As we have seen, there are dozens of plans in various stages of planning, each one of which threatens the prospects to reach a two-state solution and may be the source of the next political crisis.

Ultimately, it is not a matter of timing but of policy. If the Israeli government wants peace it must stop all of the planning and construction on the settlements including East Jerusalem, until we reach an agreement with the Palestinians on the border.

[dave.bt]

Thank you for the colourful map. Butare you cheesed off by the statementwhich coincided with Biden's visit or the construction?.

In this case the announcement but it does typify the policy of some members of the coalition.

Under international law, Israel has no right to build on it, despite what you claim. That my friend is a fact. The land is recognised as Palestinian land by everyone bar Israel.

This is highly irrelevant and simply sticking your head in the sand. Even the Palestinians have accepted some of the land -that is as far as they are concerned rightfully theirs- will remain in Israeli hands. That you try to claim Israel should not build any additional housing, even in land that even the palestinians know will not be theirs, is simply silly. The problem which you fail to comprehend is the game all sides are playing in enabling the public opinion to remain high enough for them to begin a process that will allow them to make the neccessary concessions in front of their own public enabling the sides to move forwards towards peace.

That at a time when after along pause the sides are coming together one of the sides makes a declaration highlighting an area where public opinion is extremely volatile was simply an unneccessary agressive move and needs to be addressed.

Unfortunately given the make up of the government and the system in which it was created as I mentioned in the OP it was so damned typical

[Meir Kahane]

1. i'd like ot see where the house are to be built in Jerusalem

2. jerusalem is allowed to grow a a city

1. answered already

2. at the price of Peace ? as a solution to the IP conflict ?

If the East Jerusalem construction plans are implemented, they will make it impossible to resolve the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, said [Orly Noy,] an activist of the left-wing Ir Amim non-governmental organization. [T]he East Jerusalem construction “will move Israel beyond the point of no return, as far as an agreed solution to the Israeli-Palestinian conflict is concerned,” she said.

IOA Editor: The history of the past 100 years clearly indicates that this is the intended purpose of the planned projects. Bit by bit – “dunam here and dunam there,” as the old Zionist adage goes – the carefully planned expansion will forever eliminate even the theoretical possibility of a Palestinian state. For example, see the following links :

Orly Noy: New Construction in East Jerusalem – What It Really Means
EU envoys: Israel trying to sever East Jerusalem from West Bank
New West Bank roads jeopardizing chances for peace accord
Secret Israeli database reveals full extent of illegal settlement

By Nir Hasson, Haaretz – 11 March 2010
http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1155639.html

Some 50,000 new housing units in Jerusalem neighborhoods beyond the Green Line are in various stages of planning and approval, planning officials told Haaretz. They said Jerusalem’s construction plans for the next few years, even decades, are expected to focus on East Jerusalem.

Most of the housing units will be built in predominantly Jewish neighborhoods beyond the Green Line, while a smaller number of them will be built in Arab neighborhoods. The plans for some 20,000 of the apartments are already in advanced stages of approval and implementation, while plans for the remainder have yet to be submitted to the planning committees.

The planned construction includes the 1,600 homes in the ultra-Orthodox East Jerusalem neighborhood of Ramat Shlomo that were approved Tuesday. Saying the decision undermines peace talks, U.S. Vice President Joe Biden has publicly condemned the move, which the Interior Ministry announced during his visit to Israel.

Ministry officials said the announcement was not intended to coincide with Biden’s visit.

If the East Jerusalem construction plans are implemented, they will make it impossible to resolve the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, said an activist of the left-wing Ir Amim non-governmental organization.

“The first, most explosive ‘circle of construction’ in East Jerusalem is in the Old City,” said Orly Noy of Ir Amim, which says it seeks to promote Israeli-Palestinian relations in Jerusalem. “The second circle is the ideological settlements being built in the heart of Palestinian neighborhoods in the historic basin, and the third is expanding the existing neighborhoods in the east of the city.”

Taken together, the East Jerusalem construction “will move Israel beyond the point of no return, as far as an agreed solution to the Israeli-Palestinian conflict is concerned,” she said.

Municipal planning officials said the only direction in which Jerusalem can grow is eastward. The municipality ruled out westward development after the controversial Safdie Plan – a massive construction project planned for the hills west of the capital – was axed three years ago under pressure from environmental groups.

Massive construction within Jerusalem’s older neighborhoods was also scrapped, since it clashed with other considerations: keeping buildings low, preserving historic buildings and streets, and retaining quality of life.

Ir Amim data show that the construction plans in advanced stages of approval are for Gilo (3,000 housing units), Har Homa (1,500), Pisgat Ze’ev (1,500), Givat Hamatos (3,500), Ramot (1,200), Armon Hanetziv (600) and Neveh Yaakov (450).

Several construction plans are not being advanced at the moment, including a plan to build 1,300 housing units in a neighborhood in the south of the city. In addition, a plan to make Atarot an ultra-Orthodox neighborhood was put on hold after Mayor Nir Barkat decided to revitalize the industrial area there.

The state – in the form of the Israel Lands Administration and the Housing and Construction Ministry – is the main force behind these projects. Private businesses and political organizations – including settlers groups, which are building in the midst of Palestinian neighborhoods – are also advancing the projects.

The settlers groups are advancing plans to expand the Ma’aleh Zeitim settlement in Ras al Amud from 60 housing units to more than 200.

The housing shortage in Jerusalem has become more acute in recent years, especially in ultra-Orthodox areas, pushing thousands of ultra-Orthodox families a year to the Haredi cities Betar Ilit and Modi’in Ilit, in the West Bank. The West Bank construction freeze has increased the pressure to create more housing in Jerusalem.

Source: http://www.israeli-occupation.org/2010- ... jerusalem/

[Meir Kahane]

. Would Israel permit palestinians to build or expand their neighbourhoods into israel proper? Kindly answer.

They already do, its called natural growth by Palestinian communites within Israel.

" Palestinian communites within Israel " !!!!!

Don't you mean Israeli Arabs ??

make up your mind Dude , you can't have it both ways , or can you ?

the " Palestinian communites within Israel " proper are Israeli citizens , yes or no Dude ?

[polardude1]

they too call themselves Palestinains, just like Jordaniani citizens of Palestinan origen

[dave.bt]

" Palestinian communites within Israel " !!!!!

Don't you mean Israeli Arabs ??

make up your mind Dude , you can't have it both ways , or can you ?

the " Palestinian communites within Israel " proper are Israeli citizens , yes or no Dude ?

What an empty point. Of course they are, but why do you try to remove from them the dignity of being able to describe themselves as they see fit?

"The majority of Israel's Arab citizens identify as Palestinian by nationality"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arab_citizens_of_Israel#Terminology

When we speak of the Druze community or the Beduin one within our society we are not talking down to them.

Like I said - empty point. Very weak & without merit.

[Meir Kahane]

they too call themselves Palestinains, just like Jordaniani citizens of Palestinan origen

Some do and some don't Dude
never the less they are Israeli citizens and as such they have a right to " natural growth "
yes or no Dude ?

[Meir Kahane]

Want us to answer for you ?

Okay :

DNA politics

[Hebrew version here.]

Earlier this month (on March 3 2010) an expanded panel of High Court of Justice judges debated the petition against the “Citizenship and Entry to Israel Law (Temporary Provision).” This is a “temporary provision” that for the past eight years, hour after hour, has been preventing Israeli citizens from being united with their spouses who are residents of the West Bank and Gaza, by barring the latter from entering Israel and residing therein. The law, which the court refrained from disqualifying in the past on the grounds that it serves a “temporary security purpose,” is presented as security legislation, but it is not intended to protect the residents of Israel against enemy attacks. Its purpose is to protect the vision of the Jewish state against the “demographic threat.”

This is part of the ethno-biological war that the state is waging, in which law and bureaucracy serve as the main weapons. In addition to the many people who have been directly harmed by this war, Israeli democracy can also be counted as one of its victims. The law illustrates in practice the inherent tension in the oxymoronic term “Jewish and democratic state.” In the clash between the two, the legislator has revealed that he prefers a Jewish and demographic state, and to hell with democracy.

In order to soften the long-standing temporary provision, it includes a framework for recognizing irregular cases-a “humanitarian committee,” intended to determine which of the married couples does not pose a danger to the state. But even this “humanitarian” exception shows the ethno-biological significance underlying this legislation, since the few who receive the sought-after permit to stay in Israel are usually ill and elderly people, so that only Palestinians who are incapable of producing offspring are entitled to reside in our midst. All the others are free to fulfill their love-but not in the state of the Jews.

The greatest threat that the law seeks to protect against is not the threat posed by the Palestinians who wish to be unified with their loved ones, but rather the threat posed by their potential offspring, who might, heaven forbid, exercise their rights and even vote. In order to prevent the realization of this horrific vision, the vision of democracy, the law tries to ensure that such children will not be born.

This law, like many others, illustrates the fact that the entire issue of marriage in Israel is subjugated to demographic thinking. This is an attempt by the state to control biology. It is expressed not only in mobilizing the law to protect against the threat posed by the Palestinian womb. In a state that wages battle in the field of biology, it is not surprising that the issue of fertility treatments, genetic fertilization and fetal tissue treatments is one of the most advanced in the world. The Citizenship Law, which was written and intended for the Palestinian population, is only part of an entire legal-technological complex aimed at the political manufacturing of nationality.

This is the flip side of the politics dealing with death and who should be killed, the politics of life-which life the state wishes to create and which life it seeks to prevent. The demographic war is a known matter, but it does not end with the numerical balance between Jews and non-Jews. A key element lies in the effort to prevent the creation of “hybrids,” Jewish-Arabs or Arab-Jews.

For the most part, the Israeli citizens who have been separated by the temporary provision from their family members in the West Bank or Gaza, are Palestinians holding Israeli citizenship (“Israeli Arabs”). But in some cases, this refers to mixed couples who have been waiting for many years for approval of family unification. These are usually Jewish women who fell in love with Palestinian men, and wander from one ministry to another in the hope of winning the state’s approval for a unification that is “out of the question.”

The policy of separation is not only walls that rise several meters high, but also microscopic walls that are built by the state at the level of the chromosomes of DNA. Alongside with the restrictions on Jews marrying non-Jews, the state is working to separate them from their closest neighbors and from their genetic codes, and actually trying to keep them from an exciting and attainable resolution to years of conflict. If, after more than a hundred years of Zionism, it would allow the freedom to create a new, mixed nation, that nation’s demands would be completely different and would require different politics, and a different situation.


Source: http://coteret.com/2010/03/15/einat-wei ... hic-state/

[polardude1]

Anyone libvin in Sirael knows trha Isralei Arabs are also known as Palestinians. Anyone livng near Wadi Ara, close to Kibbutz HaMaapil, knows that those communities in the north are expanding from natural growth.
Anyone who ahs never set foot Israel woud google an article about it

[dave.bt]

never the less they are Israeli citizens and as such they have a right to " natural growth "

Another meaningless empty point. Polar even said they had this right for growth, he was the one that brought that point into the discussion, so who indeed are you even trying to argue with?

Nobody is disputing this right.

Polar correctly stated these were Palestinian communities, he also correctly stated they enjoy natural growth.

Whatever avenue you are currently going down is again simply without merit or substance. Built up simply through a basic lack of understanding of the subject matter.

[dave.bt]

usual nonsense or underlying direction?

Kadima: We'll join coalition if Shas or Lieberman ousted

Members of opposition party do not rule out option of joining government under certain terms. 'Netanyahu needs Livni to fix damage caused over past year,' party official says

Despite leveling harsh criticism at Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu, particularly with regards to the current crisis with the US over Israel's plan to build 1,600 housing units in east Jerusalem, senior members of the opposition party are not ruling out the possibility of joining the coalition.

http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3862595,00.html