We have fallen for the idea that we are uniquely guilty.

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We have fallen for the idea that we are uniquely guilty.

Postby Felix » Tue Jun 20, 2017 2:05 pm

"Egged on by those who wish us ill, we have fallen for the idea that we are uniquely guilty, uniquely to be punished, and uniquely in need of having our societies changed as a result."

Great description of the bed-wetting, hand-wringing, self-loathing Western leftoid archetype.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/europes-el ... 1497821665
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Re: We have fallen for the idea that we are uniquely guilty.

Postby Annotated » Tue Jun 20, 2017 2:17 pm

Blocked by paywall.
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Re: We have fallen for the idea that we are uniquely guilty.

Postby Flobster! » Tue Jun 20, 2017 2:39 pm

Not going to read it, but "uniquely" is bullshit. And as for "punished" - elites in western countries slmost never get punished.
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Re: We have fallen for the idea that we are uniquely guilty.

Postby korgy » Tue Jun 20, 2017 2:41 pm

Felix loves strawmen.
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Re: We have fallen for the idea that we are uniquely guilty.

Postby polardude1 » Tue Jun 20, 2017 2:43 pm

Flipper
And as for "punished" - elites in western countries slmost never get punished.


I can think of an few leaders fro the exotic counties that have yet to be punished
Germany bans foreign media, temporarily
Postby Flobster » Mar 5th, 1933 7:52 am

Germany has banned foreign-produced media programmes for a month before its elections.

Seems like a good idea.

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Re: We have fallen for the idea that we are uniquely guilty.

Postby VinnyD » Tue Jun 20, 2017 2:45 pm

I am not surprised at the total lack of supporting evidence in that story. For example, I would want to see evidence to support this claim: "we [Europeans] decide[d] that anybody in the world fleeing war, or just seeking a better life, could come to Europe and call it home".

Felix, do you even understand why many people object to strawman arguments?

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Re: We have fallen for the idea that we are uniquely guilty.

Postby korgy » Tue Jun 20, 2017 2:52 pm

i dont feel like subscribing or signing in to WSJ, so i cannot read the full article.

but the article itself seems to actually be mostly an editorial about the failing [in the author's opinion] call for diversity ... yet Felix has chosen to make it about something else entirely.

Europe’s Elites Seem Determined to Commit Suicide by ‘Diversity’
Politicians say with fury that their migration policies ‘must’ work. What if they don’t?

By Douglas Murray
June 18, 2017 5:34 p.m. ET

Europe in 2017 is racked with uncertainty—the eurozone crises, the endless challenges of the European Union, national elections that resemble endless rounds of bullet-dodging. Yet even these events are insignificant compared with the deep tectonic shifts beneath the Continent’s politics, shifts that Europeans—and their allies—ignore at our peril.

Throughout the migration crisis of recent years I traveled across the Continent, from the reception islands into which migrants arrive to the suburbs in which they end up and the...[/b]
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Re: We have fallen for the idea that we are uniquely guilty.

Postby Flobster! » Tue Jun 20, 2017 2:53 pm

polardude1 wrote:Flipper
And as for "punished" - elites in western countries slmost never get punished.


I can think of an few leaders fro the exotic counties that have yet to be punished


So?
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Re: We have fallen for the idea that we are uniquely guilty.

Postby korgy » Tue Jun 20, 2017 2:54 pm

i would posit that Felix's ongoing obsession with pointing out what he sees in others' as unnecessary guilt -- in so many of his posts -- has more to do with something going on in his own psyche than with real issues that warrant discussion.
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Re: We have fallen for the idea that we are uniquely guilty.

Postby Right_Turn » Tue Jun 20, 2017 2:59 pm

Felix wrote:"Egged on by those who wish us ill, we have fallen for the idea that we are uniquely guilty, uniquely to be punished, and uniquely in need of having our societies changed as a result."

Great description of the bed-wetting, hand-wringing, self-loathing Western leftoid archetype.


Absolutely the case with many Western leftists.

Once one understands the premise from which they are (often subconsciously) working, their words and actions which otherwise seem completely counterproductive make a lot more sense.

The Original Sin.

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Re: We have fallen for the idea that we are uniquely guilty.

Postby korgy » Tue Jun 20, 2017 3:02 pm

yawn

i've heard this same bullshit all my life to rationalize abhorrent behavior, especially from white trash in the South, who just wanted things to stay the same.
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Re: We have fallen for the idea that we are uniquely guilty.

Postby polardude1 » Tue Jun 20, 2017 3:04 pm

Korgy
especially from white trash in the South

That's no way to talk about your kinfolk
Germany bans foreign media, temporarily
Postby Flobster » Mar 5th, 1933 7:52 am

Germany has banned foreign-produced media programmes for a month before its elections.

Seems like a good idea.

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Re: We have fallen for the idea that we are uniquely guilty.

Postby Felix » Tue Jun 20, 2017 3:06 pm

korgy wrote:yawn

i've heard this same bullshit all my life to rationalize abhorrent behavior, especially from white trash in the South, who just wanted things to stay the same.


What abhorrent behavior?
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Re: We have fallen for the idea that we are uniquely guilty.

Postby VinnyD » Tue Jun 20, 2017 3:08 pm

RT, can you supply a couple of supporting links?

Thanks.

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Re: We have fallen for the idea that we are uniquely guilty.

Postby korgy » Tue Jun 20, 2017 3:13 pm

Felix wrote:What abhorrent behavior?
shall i give you a bibliography of books about Jim Crow in the South?
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Re: We have fallen for the idea that we are uniquely guilty.

Postby korgy » Tue Jun 20, 2017 3:16 pm

since you seem mostly concerned about the "uniquely guilty" aspect of this article, would you mind perhaps posting that part from the editorial Felix?

thanks
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Re: We have fallen for the idea that we are uniquely guilty.

Postby VinnyD » Tue Jun 20, 2017 3:24 pm

I would also like to see examples of the egging on by people who wish Europe ill. Egging Europe on to accept refugees, is that what he means? What ill-wishers did that and when? If that is not what he means, what does he mean?

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Re: We have fallen for the idea that we are uniquely guilty.

Postby Felix » Tue Jun 20, 2017 3:24 pm

I've caught my inevitable fish already (korgy is FURIOUS, Vinny has tedious procedural objections), but it would be nice to see someone serious engage.
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Re: We have fallen for the idea that we are uniquely guilty.

Postby Citizen Baba » Tue Jun 20, 2017 3:24 pm

I have a lot to say about this, but there's this thing called work.

Do you think the countries surrounding Syria took the balk of the refugees because they felt uniquely guilty?

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Re: We have fallen for the idea that we are uniquely guilty.

Postby Citizen Baba » Tue Jun 20, 2017 3:25 pm

Can someone post the full article?

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Re: We have fallen for the idea that we are uniquely guilty.

Postby Felix » Tue Jun 20, 2017 3:27 pm

korgy wrote:
Felix wrote:What abhorrent behavior?
shall i give you a bibliography of books about Jim Crow in the South?


You mean Original Sin?
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Re: We have fallen for the idea that we are uniquely guilty.

Postby VinnyD » Tue Jun 20, 2017 3:28 pm

A migrant from Morocco outside a refugee camp on Chios island, Greece, June 9.
A migrant from Morocco outside a refugee camp on Chios island, Greece, June 9. PHOTO: PETROS GIANNAKOURIS/ASSOCIATED PRESS
By Douglas Murray
June 18, 2017 5:34 p.m. ET
571 COMMENTS
Europe in 2017 is racked with uncertainty—the eurozone crises, the endless challenges of the European Union, national elections that resemble endless rounds of bullet-dodging. Yet even these events are insignificant compared with the deep tectonic shifts beneath the Continent’s politics, shifts that Europeans—and their allies—ignore at our peril.

Throughout the migration crisis of recent years I traveled across the Continent, from the reception islands into which migrants arrive to the suburbs in which they end up and the chancelleries which encouraged them to come. For decades Europe had encouraged guest workers, and then their families, to come. As Germany’s Chancellor Angela Merkel once admitted, nobody expected them to stay.

Yet stay they did, with their numbers swelling even when there were no jobs. Waking up to the results of their policy, European societies rebranded themselves “multicultural” societies, only to begin wondering what that meant. Could a multicultural society make any demands of its newcomers? Or would that be “racist”?

–– ADVERTISEMENT ––



From the 2000s legal and illegal immigration picked up. Boats regularly set out from Turkey and North Africa to enter Europe illegally. Syrians fleeing civil war pushed into the Continent, soon joined by people from across sub-Saharan Africa, North Africa, the Middle East and Far East.

Today the great migration is off the front pages. Yet it goes on. On an average weekend nearly 10,000 people arrive on Italian reception islands alone. Where do they go? What do they expect? And what do we expect of them?

To find the answer to these and other questions it is necessary to ask deeper questions. Why did Europe decide it could take in the poor and dispossessed of the world? Why did we decide that anybody in the world fleeing war, or just seeking a better life, could come to Europe and call it home?

The reasons lie partly in our history, not least in the overwhelming German guilt, which has spread across the Continent and affected even our cultural cousins in America and Australia. Egged on by those who wish us ill, we have fallen for the idea that we are uniquely guilty, uniquely to be punished, and uniquely in need of having our societies changed as a result.

There is also, for Europe, the sense of what I call tiredness—the feeling that the story might have run out: that we have tried religion, all imaginable forms of politics, and that each has, one after another, led us to disaster. When we taint every idea we touch, perhaps a change is as good as a rest.

It is often argued that our societies are old, with a graying population, and so we need immigrants. When these theories are challenged—by asking, for instance, why the next generation of Germany’s workforce might not come from unemployed Greece rather than Eritrea—we are told that we need low-skilled workers who do not speak our languages because it makes Europe more culturally interesting. It is as though some great hole lies at the heart of the culture of Dante, Bach and Wren.


When people point out the downsides of this approach—not least that more immigration from Muslim countries produces many problems, including terrorism—we get the final explanation. It doesn’t matter, we are told: Because of globalization this is inevitable and we can’t stop it anyway.

All these instincts, when put together, are the stuff of suicide. They spell out the self-annihilation of a culture as well as a continent. Conversations with European policy makers and politicians have made this abundantly clear to me. They tell me with fury that it “must” work. I suggest that with population change of this kind, at this speed, it may not work at all.

Yet still it is possible that the publics will not go along with the instincts of their leaders. Earlier this year, a poll of European attitudes was published in which citizens of 10 countries were asked a tough question: whether they agreed that there should be no more Muslim migration into their countries. Majorities in eight out of the 10 countries, including France and Germany, said they wanted no more Muslim immigrants.

Over recent decades Europe has made a hasty effort to redefine itself. As the world came in, we became wedded to “diversity.” As terrorism grew and more migrants arrived, public opinion in Europe began to harden. Today “more diversity” remains the cry of the elites, who insist that if the public doesn’t like it yet, it is because they haven’t had enough of it.

The migration policies of the political and other elites of Europe suggest that they are suicidal. The interesting thing to watch in the years ahead will be whether the publics join them in that pact. I wouldn’t bet on it.

Mr. Murray is author of “The Strange Death of Europe: Immigration, Identity, Islam,” out this week from Bloomsbury Continuum.

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Re: We have fallen for the idea that we are uniquely guilty.

Postby Felix » Tue Jun 20, 2017 3:31 pm

By Douglas Murray
June 18, 2017 5:34 p.m. ET
569 COMMENTS
Europe in 2017 is racked with uncertainty—the eurozone crises, the endless challenges of the European Union, national elections that resemble endless rounds of bullet-dodging. Yet even these events are insignificant compared with the deep tectonic shifts beneath the Continent’s politics, shifts that Europeans—and their allies—ignore at our peril.

Throughout the migration crisis of recent years I traveled across the Continent, from the reception islands into which migrants arrive to the suburbs in which they end up and the chancelleries which encouraged them to come. For decades Europe had encouraged guest workers, and then their families, to come. As Germany’s Chancellor Angela Merkel once admitted, nobody expected them to stay.

Yet stay they did, with their numbers swelling even when there were no jobs. Waking up to the results of their policy, European societies rebranded themselves “multicultural” societies, only to begin wondering what that meant. Could a multicultural society make any demands of its newcomers? Or would that be “racist”?

From the 2000s legal and illegal immigration picked up. Boats regularly set out from Turkey and North Africa to enter Europe illegally. Syrians fleeing civil war pushed into the Continent, soon joined by people from across sub-Saharan Africa, North Africa, the Middle East and Far East.

Today the great migration is off the front pages. Yet it goes on. On an average weekend nearly 10,000 people arrive on Italian reception islands alone. Where do they go? What do they expect? And what do we expect of them?

To find the answer to these and other questions it is necessary to ask deeper questions. Why did Europe decide it could take in the poor and dispossessed of the world? Why did we decide that anybody in the world fleeing war, or just seeking a better life, could come to Europe and call it home?

The reasons lie partly in our history, not least in the overwhelming German guilt, which has spread across the Continent and affected even our cultural cousins in America and Australia. Egged on by those who wish us ill, we have fallen for the idea that we are uniquely guilty, uniquely to be punished, and uniquely in need of having our societies changed as a result.

There is also, for Europe, the sense of what I call tiredness—the feeling that the story might have run out: that we have tried religion, all imaginable forms of politics, and that each has, one after another, led us to disaster. When we taint every idea we touch, perhaps a change is as good as a rest.

It is often argued that our societies are old, with a graying population, and so we need immigrants. When these theories are challenged—by asking, for instance, why the next generation of Germany’s workforce might not come from unemployed Greece rather than Eritrea—we are told that we need low-skilled workers who do not speak our languages because it makes Europe more culturally interesting. It is as though some great hole lies at the heart of the culture of Dante, Bach and Wren.


When people point out the downsides of this approach—not least that more immigration from Muslim countries produces many problems, including terrorism—we get the final explanation. It doesn’t matter, we are told: Because of globalization this is inevitable and we can’t stop it anyway.

All these instincts, when put together, are the stuff of suicide. They spell out the self-annihilation of a culture as well as a continent. Conversations with European policy makers and politicians have made this abundantly clear to me. They tell me with fury that it “must” work. I suggest that with population change of this kind, at this speed, it may not work at all.

Yet still it is possible that the publics
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Re: We have fallen for the idea that we are uniquely guilty.

Postby Felix » Tue Jun 20, 2017 3:32 pm

Yet still it is possible that the publics will not go along with the instincts of their leaders. Earlier this year, a poll of European attitudes was published in which citizens of 10 countries were asked a tough question: whether they agreed that there should be no more Muslim migration into their countries. Majorities in eight out of the 10 countries, including France and Germany, said they wanted no more Muslim immigrants.

Over recent decades Europe has made a hasty effort to redefine itself. As the world came in, we became wedded to “diversity.” As terrorism grew and more migrants arrived, public opinion in Europe began to harden. Today “more diversity” remains the cry of the elites, who insist that if the public doesn’t like it yet, it is because they haven’t had enough of it.

The migration policies of the political and other elites of Europe suggest that they are suicidal. The interesting thing to watch in the years ahead will be whether the publics join them in that pact. I wouldn’t bet on it.
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Re: We have fallen for the idea that we are uniquely guilty.

Postby Felix » Tue Jun 20, 2017 3:33 pm

Citizen Baba wrote:I have a lot to say about this, but there's this thing called work.

Do you think the countries surrounding Syria took the balk of the refugees because they felt uniquely guilty?


No, because they are next door.
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Re: We have fallen for the idea that we are uniquely guilty.

Postby eric84 » Tue Jun 20, 2017 3:33 pm

So, the argument boils down to Europe shouldn't accept non-white refugees because it means cultural suicide for white, Christian Europe.

I disagree.
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Re: We have fallen for the idea that we are uniquely guilty.

Postby eric84 » Tue Jun 20, 2017 3:33 pm

Felix wrote:
Citizen Baba wrote:I have a lot to say about this, but there's this thing called work.

Do you think the countries surrounding Syria took the balk of the refugees because they felt uniquely guilty?


No, because they are next door.


Germany is next door? Hungary didn't take them.
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Re: We have fallen for the idea that we are uniquely guilty.

Postby Felix » Tue Jun 20, 2017 3:35 pm

eric84 wrote:So, the argument boils down to Europe shouldn't accept non-white refugees because it means cultural suicide for white, Christian Europe.

I disagree.


No, the argument is that Europe doesn't have a duty to take in refugees because of some kind of karmic restaurative Justice for residual guilt.
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Re: We have fallen for the idea that we are uniquely guilty.

Postby Flobster! » Tue Jun 20, 2017 3:37 pm

In fact, if you're a signatory to the UN convention on refugees you DO have to take in refugees.

But I'm curious as to why this upsets you.
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Re: We have fallen for the idea that we are uniquely guilty.

Postby Citizen Baba » Tue Jun 20, 2017 3:38 pm

Felix wrote:Yet still it is possible that the publics will not go along with the instincts of their leaders. Earlier this year, a poll of European attitudes was published in which citizens of 10 countries were asked a tough question: whether they agreed that there should be no more Muslim migration into their countries. Majorities in eight out of the 10 countries, including France and Germany, said they wanted no more Muslim immigrants.

Over recent decades Europe has made a hasty effort to redefine itself. As the world came in, we became wedded to “diversity.” As terrorism grew and more migrants arrived, public opinion in Europe began to harden. Today “more diversity” remains the cry of the elites, who insist that if the public doesn’t like it yet, it is because they haven’t had enough of it.

The migration policies of the political and other elites of Europe suggest that they are suicidal. The interesting thing to watch in the years ahead will be whether the publics join them in that pact. I wouldn’t bet on it.


A little melodramatic, no? No Western European country is more than 8% Muslim.

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Re: We have fallen for the idea that we are uniquely guilty.

Postby Felix » Tue Jun 20, 2017 3:39 pm

Flobster! wrote:In fact, if you're a signatory to the UN convention on refugees you DO have to take in refugees,


That duty has a different source than what I addressed.
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Re: We have fallen for the idea that we are uniquely guilty.

Postby Right_Turn » Tue Jun 20, 2017 3:41 pm

The bees have been stirred.

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Re: We have fallen for the idea that we are uniquely guilty.

Postby Felix » Tue Jun 20, 2017 3:42 pm

Right_Turn wrote:The bees have been stirred.


I invite you and Baba and vanceen to participate in this Beloved Thread.
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Re: We have fallen for the idea that we are uniquely guilty.

Postby Flobster! » Tue Jun 20, 2017 3:43 pm

Felix wrote:
Flobster! wrote:In fact, if you're a signatory to the UN convention on refugees you DO have to take in refugees,


That duty has a different source than what I addressed.


Well, you quoted a media bloviator bloviating a silly opinion, but the actual law underpinning (some) European countries taking refugees is the UN convention.
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Re: We have fallen for the idea that we are uniquely guilty.

Postby eric84 » Tue Jun 20, 2017 3:45 pm

Felix wrote:
eric84 wrote:So, the argument boils down to Europe shouldn't accept non-white refugees because it means cultural suicide for white, Christian Europe.

I disagree.


No, the argument is that Europe doesn't have a duty to take in refugees because of some kind of karmic restaurative Justice for residual guilt.


You're ignoring the racial and religious aspects to his argument likely because it makes you uncomfortable. These countries are also signatories to the UN Declaration of Human Rights so they do have a duty to assess whether these people fleeing are refugees.
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Re: We have fallen for the idea that we are uniquely guilty.

Postby coffeeguy » Tue Jun 20, 2017 3:46 pm

To the modern right, being compassionate, caring about the wellbeing of people suffering, is 'feeling guilty'. What bunk. Just admit you are selfish uncaring cunts and be done with it, snowflakes.

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Re: We have fallen for the idea that we are uniquely guilty.

Postby polardude1 » Tue Jun 20, 2017 3:49 pm

Flobster! wrote:
In fact, if you're a signatory to the UN convention on refugees you DO have to take in refugees,

really?
Germany bans foreign media, temporarily
Postby Flobster » Mar 5th, 1933 7:52 am

Germany has banned foreign-produced media programmes for a month before its elections.

Seems like a good idea.

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Re: We have fallen for the idea that we are uniquely guilty.

Postby korgy » Tue Jun 20, 2017 3:50 pm

coffeeguy wrote:To the modern right, being compassionate, caring about the wellbeing of people suffering, is 'feeling guilty'. What bunk. Just admit you are selfish uncaring cunts and be done with it, snowflakes.
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Re: We have fallen for the idea that we are uniquely guilty.

Postby Felix » Tue Jun 20, 2017 3:51 pm

polardude1 wrote:
Flobster! wrote:
In fact, if you're a signatory to the UN convention on refugees you DO have to take in refugees,

really?


And ... a duty to take in ALL the refugees?
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Re: We have fallen for the idea that we are uniquely guilty.

Postby Right_Turn » Tue Jun 20, 2017 3:53 pm

Just admit you are selfish uncaring cunts and be done with it, snowflakes.


Giving away that which belongs to someone else doesn't make one more "caring".

Ignoring the best interests of your own citizens and long term concerns for your nation is not "caring". It's just "caring" for something else.

Only Western nations get that sort of reaction. Where's the hate for the likes of Japan, South Korea, Brazil, Mexico, etc?

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Re: We have fallen for the idea that we are uniquely guilty.

Postby Felix » Tue Jun 20, 2017 3:56 pm

Right_Turn wrote:
Just admit you are selfish uncaring cunts and be done with it, snowflakes.


Giving away that which belongs to someone else doesn't make one more "caring".

Ignoring the best interests of your own citizens and long term concerns for your nation is not "caring". It's just "caring" for something else.

Only Western nations get that sort of reaction. Where's the hate for the likes of Japan, South Korea, Brazil, Mexico, etc?


Japan needs young people. It's a perfect match for refugees.
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Re: We have fallen for the idea that we are uniquely guilty.

Postby Flobster! » Tue Jun 20, 2017 3:57 pm

Felix wrote:
polardude1 wrote:
Flobster! wrote:
In fact, if you're a signatory to the UN convention on refugees you DO have to take in refugees,

really?


And ... a duty to take in ALL the refugees?


Strawman. Who takes all refugees? (Maybe Turkey.)
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Re: We have fallen for the idea that we are uniquely guilty.

Postby Right_Turn » Tue Jun 20, 2017 3:58 pm

Felix wrote:
Right_Turn wrote:
Just admit you are selfish uncaring cunts and be done with it, snowflakes.


Giving away that which belongs to someone else doesn't make one more "caring".

Ignoring the best interests of your own citizens and long term concerns for your nation is not "caring". It's just "caring" for something else.

Only Western nations get that sort of reaction. Where's the hate for the likes of Japan, South Korea, Brazil, Mexico, etc?


Japan needs young people. It's a perfect match for refugees.


Because Hiroshima. Japan is exempt. Try again.

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Re: We have fallen for the idea that we are uniquely guilty.

Postby eric84 » Tue Jun 20, 2017 3:59 pm

Right_Turn wrote:
Just admit you are selfish uncaring cunts and be done with it, snowflakes.


Giving away that which belongs to someone else doesn't make one more "caring".

Ignoring the best interests of your own citizens and long term concerns for your nation is not "caring". It's just "caring" for something else.

Only Western nations get that sort of reaction. Where's the hate for the likes of Japan, South Korea, Brazil, Mexico, etc?


You want the West to be like South Korea? I don't.
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Re: We have fallen for the idea that we are uniquely guilty.

Postby polardude1 » Tue Jun 20, 2017 4:00 pm

Strawman. Who takes all refugees? (Maybe Turkey.)

Turkey has a border with Syria and they will be forced home when the civil war eventually ends
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Germany has banned foreign-produced media programmes for a month before its elections.

Seems like a good idea.

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Re: We have fallen for the idea that we are uniquely guilty.

Postby Felix » Tue Jun 20, 2017 4:00 pm

Also, Japan is not Christian, and didn't colonize anyone.

Oh ...
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Re: We have fallen for the idea that we are uniquely guilty.

Postby Citizen Baba » Tue Jun 20, 2017 4:00 pm

Felix wrote:
Right_Turn wrote:
Just admit you are selfish uncaring cunts and be done with it, snowflakes.


Giving away that which belongs to someone else doesn't make one more "caring".

Ignoring the best interests of your own citizens and long term concerns for your nation is not "caring". It's just "caring" for something else.

Only Western nations get that sort of reaction. Where's the hate for the likes of Japan, South Korea, Brazil, Mexico, etc?


Japan needs young people. It's a perfect match for refugees.


Japan is one of the worst places to try to obtain asylum. Their grant rate is less than 1%. They had a huge public debate about resettling 40 Karen refugees a few years ago including an appearance by yours truly on an NHK special.

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Re: We have fallen for the idea that we are uniquely guilty.

Postby korgy » Tue Jun 20, 2017 4:03 pm

Right_Turn wrote:
Just admit you are selfish uncaring cunts and be done with it, snowflakes.

Giving away that which belongs to someone else doesn't make one more "caring"
so, without getting into the obvious flaws in your point, we can at least agree that the modern Right is about as unChristianly as any political movement, yes? even though much of it claims to be Christian.

can we agree to that? i dont think this is really a subjective thing -- it's fairly factual. i didnt write the New Testament.
Last edited by korgy on Tue Jun 20, 2017 4:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: We have fallen for the idea that we are uniquely guilty.

Postby Vodd » Tue Jun 20, 2017 4:04 pm

I don't feel the need to welcome refugees out of some distant colonial guilt or to apologise for the sins of my great grandparents. I feel the need out of humanity and empathy toward my fellow man. What do you propose, a wall?
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Re: We have fallen for the idea that we are uniquely guilty.

Postby simon_in_exile » Tue Jun 20, 2017 4:06 pm

coffeeguy wrote:To the modern right, being compassionate, caring about the wellbeing of people suffering, is 'feeling guilty'. What bunk. Just admit you are selfish uncaring cunts and be done with it, snowflakes.

And there's the other side of the argument.


For the record, the author of the article has coincidentally written a book recently, which he is publicising.
Here's a review.
https://www.theguardian.com/books/2017/may/06/strange-death-europe-immigration-xenophobia
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