Happy 99 B-Day Ronnie...

[GeoDaddy]

"Socialism only works in two places: Heaven where they don't need it and hell where they already have it." -Ronald Reagan


'The most terrifying words in the English language are: I'm from the government and I'm here to help.'-Ronald Reagan


'Of the four wars in my lifetime, none came about because the U.S. was too strong.'- Ronald Reagan


'I have wondered at times about what the Ten Comman dm ents would have looked like if Moses had run them through the U.S. Congress..' -Ronald Reagan


'Government is like a baby: An alimentary canal with a big appetite at one end and no sense of responsibility at the other.'- Ronald Reagan


'The nearest thing to eternal life we will ever see on this earth is a government program.' - Ronald Reagan


'It has been said that politics is the second oldest profession. I have learned that it bears a striking resemblance to the first.'- Ronald Reagan


'Government's view of the economy could be summed up in a few short phrases: If it moves, tax it. If it keeps moving, regulate it. And if it stops moving, subsidize it'
- Ronald Reagan

'If we ever forget that we're one nation under GOD, then we will be a nation gone under.'-Ronald Reagan

[foolsprogress]

They don't make 'em like Ronnie any more. A voice from a bygone era before the GOP lost its way.

[Joe Bloggs]

On the Afghan "Muhajideen" (a.k.a the Taliban) in the 1980s:

"These gentlemen are the moral equivalents of America’s founding fathers".


Rot in Hell.

[foolsprogress]

"These gentlemen are the moral equivalents of America’s founding fathers".

Today's teabaggers use and abuse the name and words of the founding fathers like so much tissue paper. I guess some things never change.

[Godjira]

"Muhajideen" (a.k.a the Taliban)

I call bullshit on that one.

There were many, many groups involved with the Muhajideen, and in fact- the Taliban really wasn't fully formed until well after that.

That's like saying "The Allies" (a.k.a. Stalinist Russia)- and even less likely as the Taliban didn't exist in the 80's

some truly great people came out of the Muhajideen- for example, the great Ahmad Shah Massoud

[janieblack]

Hindsight is 20/20 but if you'd asked me at the time if Ronnie was going to be the best conservative president of my era, I'd have said you were a nutty nutty fruit bar.

Sigh.

Some of those quotes are quite good, though, except I really have no time for anti-government posturing from politicians.... it's populist pablum for the brain dead who can't put together the fact that elected reps lead government.

[Joe Bloggs]

The Taliban were and are Pashtun Islamic fundamentalists, directly descended from many of those who fought the Afghan Communist government and Soviet backers.

Is Gulbuddin Hekmatyar one of these great people who came from the Muhajideen?

He and Massoud were responsible for thousands of deaths and flattening Kabul when they fought it out for control in the early 90s.

Btw, Massoud was so great that the CIA actually preferred to covertly support the Talibans in the late 90s in order not to upset their Pakistani allies who mistrusted the Tadjik Massoud.

[Godjira]

But, in any event- to equate the Muhajideen with the Taliban is an absurd and incorrect oversimplification.

Does who Washington and the CIA support influence how you judge people? Me- no.

But, anyway- whenever there is a power vacuum, the shit rises to the top. But, if anyone is responsible for the Taliban- it's the Russians for going in there and upsetting the balance of power to begin with.

[Lavite]

I grew up in the army during the Reagan years. His impact was profound. Up to that point, the General Plan for a war in Europe with the Warsaw Pact was a fighting withdrawal to the West to await the arrival of CONUS troops. My unit was a speed bump to delay the bad guys.

He considered that bullshit and demanded an offensive plan. So if the Warsaw Pact attacked in shit loads of numbers, we were going to immediately strike hard and deep. The plan was pretty damn ambitious. Don't know how it would have worked out, the cold war ended. But the whole defensive strategy went out the window.

[Godjira]

well, even Albania is part of NATO now!

[ZOBBEL]

godjira is right. The taleban did not exist in the 80's.

They are descended from the mujahideen in the same way that Ghenghis Khan was decended from Nigel P Khan (greengrocer)

[foolsprogress]

I grew up in the army during the Reagan years. His impact was profound. Up to that point, the General Plan for a war in Europe with the Warsaw Pact was a fighting withdrawal to the West to await the arrival of CONUS troops. My unit was a speed bump to delay the bad guys.

He considered that bullshit and demanded an offensive plan. So if the Warsaw Pact attacked in shit loads of numbers, we were going to immediately strike hard and deep. The plan was pretty damn ambitious. Don't know how it would have worked out, the cold war ended. But the whole defensive strategy went out the window.

I thought the plan was to fall back and nuke most of Europe. That's why we maintained the first strike option.

[Lavite]

I couldn't tell you how nukes worked into the plan, Fools. I know for a fact we had tactical nukes available nearby for our artillery battery in the Squadron. But I never saw a Operations Order that included nukes. I was a LT at the time. All that would have been echelons above me and my concerns.

[Geeceling]

Muhajideen is not a word in Arabic.

[Citizen Baba]

Over a period of about five years, Reagan told the story of the "Chicago welfare queen" who had 80 names, 30 addresses, 12 Social Security cards, and collected benefits for "four nonexisting deceased husbands," bilking the government out of "over $150,000." The real welfare recipient to whom Reagan referred was actually convicted for using two different aliases to collect $8,000. Reagan continued to use his version of the story even after the press pointed out the actual facts of the case to him.

"I believe in states' rights ... I believe we have distorted the balance of our government today by giving powers that were never intended to be given in the Constitution to that federal establishment."
RR, Philadelphia, MS, August 3, 1980

"Trees cause more pollution than automobiles do."
RR, same month

"In England, if a criminal carried a gun, even though he didn't use it, he was tried for first-degree murder and hung if he was found guilty."
RR, April 1982

"We did not--repeat, did not--trade weapons or anything else for hostages, nor will we."
RR, March 4, 1987

[AnnieOakley]

Bullshitting is a form of communication.

[korgy]

Biggest fucking Presidential liar in decades until Bush:

"For 18 months now, we have had under way
a secret diplomatic initiative to Iran.
That initative was undertaken for the
simplest and best reasons: to renew a
relationship with the nation of Iran;
...
Durning the course of our secret discussions,
I authorized the transfer of small amounts
of defensive weapons and spare parts for
defensive systems to Iran....These modest
deliveries, taken together could easily
fit into a single cargo plane....
We did not--repeat--did not trade weapons
or anything else for hostages, nor will we.
Reagan Nov 14, 1986

"We did not--repeat--did not trade weapons
or anything else for hostages, nor will we"

[Geeceling]

Biggest fucking Presidential liar in decades until Bush:

"For 18 months now, we have had under way
a secret diplomatic initiative to Iran.
That initative was undertaken for the
simplest and best reasons: to renew a
relationship with the nation of Iran;
...
Durning the course of our secret discussions,
I authorized the transfer of small amounts
of defensive weapons and spare parts for
defensive systems to Iran....These modest
deliveries, taken together could easily
fit into a single cargo plane....
We did not--repeat--did not trade weapons
or anything else for hostages, nor will we.
Reagan Nov 14, 1986

"We did not--repeat--did not trade weapons
or anything else for hostages, nor will we"

I find Reagan more credible here (credibly clueless, I mean) than Clinton about having sex with "that woman." It's clear that Clinton knew he was lying. Reagan, let's just say that we can't call him "Biggest fucking Presidential liar in decades[.]"

Get angry now korky.

[korgy]

In November 1983, Reagan told visiting Israeli Prime Minister Yitzhak Shamir that he had served as a photographer in a U.S. Army unit assigned to film Nazi death camps. He repeated the story to Simon Wiesenthal the following February. Reagan never visited or filmed a concentration camp; he spent World War II in Hollywood, making training films with the First Motion Picture Unit of the Army Air Corps.

http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/featur ... perts.html

[Geeceling]

Sigh. Sometimes it's embarrassing that korky and I tend to vote the same way.

[Logg]

They don't make 'em like Ronnie any more. A voice from a bygone era before the GOP lost its way.

I'm a little surprised to hear that from you. While Reagan may have been the right man for the times, he was the one who introduced the new republican paradigm: He was dumb and aloof, he introduced the Christian Coalition into national politics, he exploded the US debt, the economic reforms he introduced helped to destroy the New Deal, he gave us voodoo economics, he appeared to believe in the imminence of Armageddon...
Compared to GWB he may have seemed moderate, but Reagan was when the modern GWB republican era started.

And that's not even mentioning all his inane ramblings, the Iran Contra Affair (which to his credit he may not even have understood), or his crazy wife trying to control policy through Hollywood psychics.

[korgy]

Felix, how do you feel about Reagan telling Simon Wiesenthal he photographed Nazi concentration camps in WWII?

how do you feel about him using his Iran money to secretly fund an illegal war in Nicaragua that killed thousands of innocent civilians?

[Geeceling]

Felix, how do you feel about Reagan telling Simon Wiesenthal he photographed Nazi concentration camps in WWII?

He was full of shit.

how do you feel about him using his Iran money to secretly fund an illegal war in Nicaragua that killed thousands of innocent civilians?

Terrible. I'm not sure how much he knew about it.

Clinton was a bigger liar, under oath even. I voted for him in 1996, and would do it again. I'm just poking you for foaming at the mouth again. You should take some Valium or something.

[korgy]

Sigh. Sometimes it's embarrassing that korky and I tend to vote the same way.

poor Felix, always searching fo his identity. always comparing himself with others, trying to figure out who he is -- " am i like that? should i be like that? what do they think of me? do the think i'm like that? if i think this, what they think of me?"

poor thing. poor spineless, vapid, narcissistic ghost.

[Right_Turn]

As soon as I saw the title of this thread, I knew the hate would flow. Mentioning Reagan's name is the best way to invoke pavlovian rage from the far left.

While I think Reagan was the right man at the right time and a very good president, I don't agree with the near deification of him among many conservatives. Reagan probably would have been uncomfortable with it as well.

[AnnieOakley]

Reagan was a putz. Get the fuck over it.

[Geeceling]

Sigh. Sometimes it's embarrassing that korky and I tend to vote the same way.

poor Felix, always searching fo his identity. always comparing himself with others, trying to figure out who he is -- " am i like that? should i be like that? what do they think of me? do the think i'm like that? if i think this, what they think of me?"

poor thing. poor spineless, vapid, narcissistic ghost.

So angry, korky. So vain too, thinking that anyone bemused by your rabid, foam-at-the-mouth partisanship lacks identity.

[korgy]

RT, selling weapons to Iran to fund an illegal failed war in Nicarargua was a great thing to do. such patriotism.

geeceling, can you please find someone else to hover around?

[Geeceling]

So you agree that Clinton was a bigger liar than Reagan? Or are you going to throw out some strawmen now?

[Godjira]

I find Reagan more credible here (credibly clueless, I mean) than Clinton about having sex with "that woman." It's clear that Clinton knew he was lying. Reagan, let's just say that we can't call him "Biggest fucking Presidential liar in decades[.]"

Get angry now korky.

I think there is a big difference between weapons that can kill thousands of people and a hummer.

[Geeceling]

I think there is a big difference between weapons that can kill thousands of people and a hummer.

I agree, but the issue was who is a bigger liar.

[Citizen Baba]

I think there is a big difference between weapons that can kill thousands of people and a hummer.

I agree, but the issue was who is a bigger liar.

Clinton was -- and probably still is -- a huge liar. He's certainly not someone I would lift a thumb to defend.

[Right_Turn]

RT, selling weapons to Iran to fund an illegal failed war in Nicarargua was a great thing to do. such patriotism.

You must really hate FDR and JFK, then. Heck, you must despise just about every U.S. president in the 20th century outside of Jimmy Carter.

[polardude1]

Are presidents liers or mislead by liers?

[Godjira]

RT, selling weapons to Iran to fund an illegal failed war in Nicarargua was a great thing to do. such patriotism.

You must really hate FDR and JFK, then.

that pair of tax and spend liberals??

[birdlite]

Clinton was slime for committing perjury, but defying an Act of Congress seems to be the bigger political crime -- which means that Ronnie was either criminal or dangerously out of touch with his "people."

Independent Counsel concluded that:

- the sales of arms to Iran contravened United States Government policy and may have violated the Arms Export Control Act1

- the provision and coordination of support to the contras violated the Boland Amendment ban on aid to military activities in Nicaragua;

- the policies behind both the Iran and contra operations were fully reviewed and developed at the highest levels of the Reagan Administration;

- although there was little evidence of National Security Council level knowledge of most of the actual contra-support operations, there was no evidence that any NSC member dissented from the underlying policykeeping the contras alive despite congressional limitations on contra support;

- the Iran operations were carried out with the knowledge of, among others, President Ronald Reagan, Vice President George Bush, Secretary of State George P. Shultz, Secretary of Defense Caspar W. Weinberger, Director of Central Intelligence William J. Casey, and national security advisers Robert C. McFarlane and John M. Poindexter; of these officials, only Weinberger and Shultz dissented from the policy decision, and Weinberger eventually acquiesced by ordering the Department of Defense to provide the necessary arms; and

- large volumes of highly relevant, contemporaneously created documents were systematically and willfully withheld from investigators by several Reagan Administration officials.

-following the revelation of these operations in October and November 1986, Reagan Administration officials deliberately deceived the Congress and the public about the level and extent of official knowledge of and support for these operations.

In addition, Independent Counsel concluded that the off-the-books nature of the Iran and contra operations gave line-level personnel the opportunity to commit money crimes.

[Wellpisser]

On the Afghan "Muhajideen" (a.k.a the Taliban) in the 1980s:

"These gentlemen are the moral equivalents of America’s founding fathers".


Rot in Hell.

the taliban didn't come into being until the mid 1990s

[Wellpisser]

Sigh. Sometimes it's embarrassing that korky and I tend to vote the same way.

Forgive him , korky actually voted for Reagan

[korgy]

Clinton was slime for committing perjury, but defying an Act of Congress seems to be the bigger political crime -- which means that Ronnie was either criminal or dangerously out of touch with his "people."

please understand, these insignificant little subtleties -- illegally defying the US Congress regarding matters of war, vs. lying about a blowjob -- get lost on people like Felix.

oh, the tedious details.

[Joe Bloggs]

Stop hiding behind semantics.

There is absolutely no difference between the majority of the Muhajideen fighters praised and financed by Reagan in the 1980s and the Taleban of the 1990s...........either in terms of Islamic fundamentalism or ethnically, linguistically and politically.

In fact, the proof in the pudding is that the US administration continued to prefer the Taleban regime in the late 1990s to Massoud......... in order not to upset its Pakistani allies.

In fact, had Bin Laden not taken refuge in Afghanistan, Mullar Omar would still be ruling in Kabul!

[polardude1]

There is absolutely no difference between the majority of the Muhajideen fighters praised and financed by Reagan in the 1980s and the Taleban of the 1990s

Mujahadeen was a general term used on fightersagainst the Soviets . The Taliban were one of the many factions that formed after the departure of the Soviet. Their primary support came frome Pakistani inteligence services

[Geeceling]

Clinton was slime for committing perjury, but defying an Act of Congress seems to be the bigger political crime -- which means that Ronnie was either criminal or dangerously out of touch with his "people."

please understand, these insignificant little subtleties -- illegally defying the US Congress regarding matters of war, vs. lying about a blowjob -- get lost on people like Felix.

oh, the tedious details.

Look at korky squirm. You were talking about lies, not consequences. It doesn't really matter though, for a team player like you. How does it feel to buy your ideas in a bunch, to be a lockstep follower? Baaaaaa.

[Geeceling]

Stop hiding behind semantics.

There is absolutely no difference between the majority of the Muhajideen fighters praised and financed by Reagan in the 1980s and the Taleban of the 1990s...........either in terms of Islamic fundamentalism or ethnically, linguistically and politically.

What is a muhajideen, my little chavista?

[Godjira]

Stop hiding behind semantics.

There is absolutely no difference between the majority of the Muhajideen fighters praised and financed by Reagan in the 1980s and the Taleban of the 1990s...........either in terms of Islamic fundamentalism or ethnically, linguistically and politically.

In fact, the proof in the pudding is that the US administration continued to prefer the Taleban regime in the late 1990s to Massoud......... in order not to upset its Pakistani allies.

In fact, had Bin Laden not taken refuge in Afghanistan, Mullar Omar would still be ruling in Kabul!

Why don't you provide some actual data that shows the Muhadjideen of the 80's is the same as the Taliban of the late 90's.

It's nonsense. You're just bitter because they caused the downfall of the Eastern Bloc. Which is Ironic- living it up on nonstop cheese and wine while feeling bad that people can't wait on like for powdered milk and low grade vodka.

yet- you keep going back to the US. Why does the US decide what's right and wrong for you? and what does that have to do with your original comment?

[incognita]

I am not worried about the deficit. It is big enough to take care of itself.

[Joe Bloggs]

Muhajideen is the generally accepted term for the fundamentalist Islamic resistance movement that fought the Afghan Communist government and their Soviet backers....

There is very little difference between the ethnic origin and political/religious outlook on life of most (not all) of them and the Taleban....in fact Karzai was closely involved with the Taleban at the beginning of the movement

The CIA and ISI poured in masses amounts of arms and money to these Islamic fundamentalists in 80s, thus creating a fertile terrain for the growth of Al Qaeda in Afghanistan.

These Muhajideen then proceeded to fight each other bringing mass death and destruction to Kabul once the Communists had been overthrown.

With none of the Muhajideen factions being able to gain the advantage (particularly Hekmatyar), the ISI (which was a close ally of the CIA) promoted a new Islamic fundamentalist force, based on the same Pashtun tribes from where the Muhajideen came from, to take over the country to stop the pro-Indian Massoud from taking over the country.

In fact, the US under Clinton did not take an openly hostile stance on the Taleban in the 1990s and never put its full support behind Massoud.

The pro Islamic fundamentalist policy of Reagan in the 1980s has therefore backfired massively, creating the Frankenstein monster of Al Qaeda and the Taleban of today.

Chickens came home to roost, big time.

[Geeceling]

Muhajideen is the generally accepted term for the fundamentalist Islamic resistance movement that fought the Afghan Communist government and their Soviet backers....

No it isn't. Your Arabic is as lacking as your Spanish. h-j-d as a triconsonantal root makes no sense in this context.

Stick with your Latino caudillo dolls, poseur.

[Joe Bloggs]

You are a small minded little idiot aren't you?

I am not a mother tongue Arab speaker, neither are you and neither are the majority of people on this board.

Muhajideen or its other various spellings IS the generally accepted term for the Afghan resistance movement in the 1980s in the ENGLISH language and amongst English speakers..

http://terrorism.about.com/od/m/g/Mujahideen.htm

http://encyclopedia.stateuniversity.com/pages/15503/Mujahideen.html

http://www.economicexpert.com/a/Mujahideen.htm

and the list could go on and on.....

No one gives a flying fuck about your triconsonantal roots....

[Geeceling]

Touchy touchy, my little chav-ista. You still haven't gotten it right. While many mujahidin are also hajjis, I have never heard of muhajideen.

[Joe Bloggs]

Muhajideen or Mujahideen ...who cares...I know what I mean... and so does everybody else